The Misconceptions about SegWit, a Heated Debate on 8btc
There have been lots of discussions about the war between the SegWit (SW) and the Bitcoin Unlimited (BU) on 8btc forum in recent days. “BU Party” on 8btc refers to those who support Bitcoin Unlimited. “Beginagain” started a thread on 8btc forum :the Misconceptions about SegWit, which soon become one of the hottest topics. Please note that forum users are anonymous while moderators are verified accounts.
Misconception 1: SW and lightening network would freeze onchain scaling.
“I found no justification on this. If SW scaling is adopted and prove to be capable of handling market demands, then there is no need to do onchain scaling. If blocksize is not sufficient after that, we may modify the code and activate the client with most miner’s support. That’s the same as today.”
Misconception 2. Lighting Network will cause centralization in offchain payment nodes, then the government could easily apply regulation.
” In any free market, there will be only a few big companies left as a result of competition. In China, Taobao, Amazon and JD are the top players in e-commerce and I don’t see any harm they do to us. Bitcoin network couldn’t be blocked. If customers doesn’t like a (LN) node , they can always switch to another. If domestic companies are regulated, then use a international one. If Bitcoin could be blocked, then the number of nodes makes no sense. Therefore I am totally confused by the BU Party. With SW support climbs to over 23% and BU support down to 8.6%. I can tell that the miners know the right thing to do.”
Jiang Zhuo’er ,the author of As a China Mining Pool Owner, Why I am a Hardcore Opponent to SegWit，refuted the claim:
1. The argument now is about the roadmap. If SW is implemented, core dev team will win again and tighten their control over the source code. Who else will be able to “make small modification on the basis of Core and release”? “with most miners support”–Miners are not against scaling. Their concern comes from the objection of the core team.
2. On the issue of big companies monopolies , so you do agree that the big companies of Lightening Network will be regulated. Let’s imagine that most of Bitcoin users are connected via some super big domestic companies like Bifubao or Weibi. If you want to make a transaction, you must go through these companies. If your account is locked due to some legal requirements, how can you transfer Bitcoin via a foreign company to a domestic user who is using a domestic account. Bifubao or Weibi will refuse any incoming transaction from anonymous user or companies that isn’t a partner.
Then he expressed his concerns:
What’s more, if an American LN company asks every user to have American citizenship as it is required by bitlicense, you are not even qualified to use their service.
If you are willing to surrender your transaction to the hands of lightening network operator, then you must accept government regulation like KYC, pictures with you holding your ID, utility bills and video identification etc.
Your willingness to be a slave doesn’t mean that we have to follow.
“Beginagain” soon replied(condensed) :
Core client is being used by the most miners because of its reliability, no one is pointing a gun at you. Products of Core met the demands of the market and miner and that’s why it prevails in the free market. Core won its market share through fierce competition. Bitcoin is a free market. The vast majority of the miners are using CORE because other products are not good enough. It’s that simple.
Then Idgui[board moderator] joined in:
1. No matter how influential CORE is, they have no right to activate the code. No apps or projects will accept them if their proposal is not favored by the community. However, there are now over 70 entities flagging support for SegWit. Devs may have the power to update the code but it’s up to the miners to activate them. Also exchanges can serve as a third balancing power.
2. You know nothing about the Lightening Network. LN is not an offchain third party wallet and requires no registration. No personal information will be needed when using it. Exchanges may set up LN node to build LN channel with its users. Big community like 8btc may setup a LN node for its users. Nodes could even be found within wechat group, qq group for members to make transaction. It’s not likely that the LN will be centralized.
As early as Feb 2014, Russia issued an order to ban Bitcoin but as per Localbitcoin figures, the transaction volume kept on growing because Bitcoin is decentralized and cannot be killed. Now you want to kill the onchain transaction so that regulation is possible?
Then the discussion shifted to Lightening Network (LN).
There are no such thing as “registry” on LN. You may check out the video:
Let’s go back to the LN whitepaper and please explain “Funding Tx”?
Jiang Zhuo’er also said he would release an article to address more arguments soon. The debate is still going as you are reading.
If you wish to share your views, Feel free to register on forum or leave your comments below.
Learn cryptocurrency and digital assets since 2013 and co-founder of 8btc in 2014. Co-author of 2014-2015 Digital Currency Development Report(2015) and first author of Investment Guidelines To Blockchain Digital Currency (Published in June 2017 ISBN:9787300239286).
The Misconceptions about #SegWit, a Heated Debate on 8btc http://news.8btc.com/the-misconceptions-about-segwit … #bitcon #blockchain #scalingpic.twitter.com/x1p0VWxGgM
Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: 8btccom
If this Mexican Stand-Off is not resolved like adults, Bitcoin might have it’s own Charlton Heston moment
I don’t really see it this way. The market really values the security of Bitcoin’s immutability. All forks (hard or soft) are a threat to that. The market seems to already value the practical inability to hard fork. It will likewise value the inability to soft fork. This is not to say that I don’t think SegWit is great. I think it is fantastic (lots of pros, no cons). But because SegWit is so great, blocking it may be the best way to send a loud and clear message to the market regarding the security of Bitcoin’s immutability. And Bitcoin won’t garner the huge market until the market is convinced that there is no chance of change by the whims of the masses, the miners, or the devs. So I guess I’m good either way, but blocking SegWit will probably make us richer faster.
Maxwell probably gave the best analogy.
One of the regrettable truths about free speech is that it can be best measured by the freedoms enjoyed by the most reprehensible among us. Of course people who say things everyone agrees with are free to speak, but we don’t know we have freedom until we hear some horrible bigot expressing deeply unpopular views. So perhaps the token goes the other way– We don’t really know that Bitcoin is immutable to bad changes until we see it not accepting good ones.
An interesting opinion.
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